.png)
Carlos Granados Podcast
Welcome to the Carlos Granados Podcast. In this podcast, I will discuss my health journey, news, updates, and educational content surrounding my life, and anything and everything that I enjoy. This is my introduction to my new podcast through "Youtube Podcast". I decided to expand my horizons and let you into my life outside my health journey. You can watch clips and full videos in 4k on my YouTube channel "Carlos Granados".
Carlos Granados Podcast
Breaking Free from Deception: Kevin's Path to True Faith
Kevin's journey from a college freshman to an unwitting cult member is a tale that challenges our understanding of faith and manipulation. Imagine being approached by seemingly sincere individuals who offer spiritual enlightenment, only to find yourself entangled in a web of control and deceit. Kevin joins us to share his deeply personal story of navigating these treacherous waters during his time at Georgia State University, offering insights into the deceptive practices of certain religious groups and the blurred lines between genuine faith and coercive tactics.
What happens when the teachings you're devoted to are rooted in manipulation? Kevin's experience with a non-denominational Bible study that spiraled into an association with a Korean cult, Shincheonji, unveils the emotional turmoil of betrayal and the struggle to reclaim personal faith. Through Kevin's candid recounting, we gain a clearer picture of the psychological strategies employed by such groups, including love bombing and guilt, that ensnare unsuspecting members. His revelation of the truth and subsequent escape from these deceptive doctrines shed light on the importance of questioning what we are taught and seeking truth.
Ultimately, this episode is a testament to resilience and spiritual growth. As Kevin reflects on his transformative experience, he emphasizes the crucial role of a genuine relationship with Jesus and the grace that comes from understanding salvation not as a result of personal achievement but as a gift from God. Kevin's story is a powerful reminder of the necessity of discernment in our spiritual journeys and the unwavering love and support that a true faith community can provide. Join us as we explore these profound themes and encourage listeners to question, learn, and deepen their own spiritual paths.
ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to my podcast and welcome back into another episode. Listen, guys. I know I've been slacking for a while and I haven't posted some episodes but because you know, life has been lifing. But I appreciate, appreciate you guys, everybody who has been part of the podcast, um, everybody who has been subscribing, listening. But I appreciate you guys, everybody who has been part of the podcast, everybody who has been subscribing, listening, don't forget, you can listen to my podcast on all the audio platforms and, of course, if you want to watch it on 4K, you can watch it on YouTube. So you can subscribe to my channel and I appreciate the love. Today, since it's October, as you can see, the light it's a little dim, a little bit because we have a like, a little bit of a spooky story. Um, you know, a little bit of a october vibe, you know the halloween vibes and, um, before I keep talking, I want to introduce my guest, kevin. What's up, homie? How you doing? Welcome to my podcast, brother hey, carlos, what's good?
Speaker 2:really good. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm good man, listen. It's your first time in a podcast all right, first time all right deep breath, take five.
Speaker 1:Listen. I'm excited to hear your story, bro, how everything started, um, how you got into everything, bro. But, um, you told me but you know before that you found out you were part of a cult and a lot of people are interested in this topic. I'm intrigued by it just because you know I've never been part of one, but you were and we're going to get into that. So, if you want to start by telling us, how did this happen? How did you get into it? You know, how did you go about all of that and eventually we're going to have a conversation. It's going to be so interesting, bro.
Speaker 2:Okay, so basically, how this began was I used to go to gsu my freshman year of georgia state university correct shut out and I think I was in the rec center and you know I like jaywalked across the street to get to the.
Speaker 2:I forgot what was the main building, but then there's two people there that were, like you know, talking, talking to people, and he's like, hey, hey, can we talk to you about um, can we share god's message with you? And I was like, of course, you know, I grew up christian and you know I thought these were people that, like you know, were just trying to, like, spread the word of god oh.
Speaker 1:So that's how they approached you first, with like, yeah, god, oh so it was two people.
Speaker 2:And then they're then they're like it was like not God's word, but it was like can we share a verse with you? Oh, okay. And I was like, of course, you know, I've been raised Christian and I thought it's people just, you know, trying to spread the word. Right. And I was like, of course, and then it was two guys, and then they shared a verse, and it was speaking about the.
Speaker 1:you know how, in the end times, there'll be famines.
Speaker 2:So like revelation, almost Right. And then they were talking, they asked me, they were like do you know what that means? And then I was like you know, I'm like, I'm like so locked out, it's like six, it's like probably like 5 pm.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it's like the end of the day.
Speaker 2:End of the day and like probably like 5 pm. Oh so it's like the end of the day, end of the day and I was like you know. I was like, well, there'll be famine and you know, stuff like that, and then he was like, but then he basically saying that this was like a spiritual famine okay, like people would be like like they wouldn't have the word of God and I was like kind of like, oh okay, because he's, because you know, now everyone's like not no one has the fear of god anymore right no one's like taking it serious and everyone's like stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And you know this is before where I was like not really locked in to stuff like that into, into your faith, into my faith. Correct gotcha so yeah, these two people like talked to me and they're these were like nicest people, like the nicest people you ever. So that's how you don't think of it.
Speaker 2:And then he was like, hey, uh, I have. We're currently like, you know, we have a podcast that we're trying to work on. And then I was like, oh, that's cool. And he was like we'd love to get you on a, on a zoom interview, because, you know, like just to interview you, I'm about that and I was like you know, what like? Why not like? This is god stuff. Like you know, I'm trying, I have to like yeah, yeah give it a try, at least right.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, basically get, we get each other's details, and then he, we meet, we meet, and then he basically gives me like a whole, like lesson.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what was the first lesson, but it was a lesson it was just like um in regards to like the bible or like bible studies and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Okay so he was like it was a lesson, probably, about how I think it was probably like the I don't know if it was the very first one but like you know, like the sower, like the seed who falls on, like you know, like dirt road. Okay. The bird comes and snatches the seed. Okay. So like those types of lessons and he would like explain them and stuff like that. And I was like oh wow, this is like nice.
Speaker 1:It's deep yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's like someone sitting there with me and like reading the word, and you know he's reading the bible.
Speaker 2:He's not reading something else, he's reading the bible right and he's telling me how this means this, and he's using biblical text to come uh, what's called back up the stuff that he's saying, right? So I was like, oh wow, this is and and nothing sounds bad, because, you know, he's basically saying that the bird is the devil trying to swoop down and take that word of god, which is the seed. Take it away from you right so we can't be the dirt road. Gotta be good soil right, correct.
Speaker 1:They use that a lot in uh, christianity as well. Like the, you know the soil and stuff like that. So I'm following exactly so.
Speaker 2:Then, you know, he was like hey, man, this is like, yes, we do have a podcast, but this is really what we do. We're just like we were, we have a bible study and we're just trying to get people to. You know, come in like so recruit. Almost that's what it is okay but my, at my time I didn't know it was recruiting, because you know they don't say none of that yeah and then, yeah, they were, they were like, since I liked that first lesson uh-huh I was like this is what I I want.
Speaker 2:Because I was like, because I've prayed before where I was like man, just let me get, I just need someone to like show me how this works right, someone that can like sit down, like just tell me how the bible actually like connects to someone's life, or like how it connects like the real world. And this was literally what they were doing. They were like you're sitting there, they read a lesson, and these lessons ultimately would benefit you right it would.
Speaker 2:The whole goal was to connect you to god okay and you know I would like continue meeting with my person, the guy that I met right for about three, four lessons and then you know, it was keep going and also we'd take notes on everything because he would. It would basically be a zoom call, with him taking notes and explaining it at the same time. So that's why everything would stay with you. He's like talking and drawing, and all the verses are getting written down and read he's making little drawings to make everything connect.
Speaker 2:So I used to. I don't know what happened to these journals that I had. I was looking for them to bring them, but I was like I just couldn't find them, and it was. It was like I would have these meetings. It would. It would start with once a week, so it'd be every Wednesday and it'd be like an hour. So you know, like not that bad. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then he was like this was you know, these are just like beginner classes to like you know, like some lessons were like how to build your temple, so, like you know how we are the body of our body is the temple of god. Yep, you'd be like how to build your own temple right he would like use the how.
Speaker 2:In the first temple, which was king solomon's first temple, it was three, three levels and then he connected it to how in our temple it's three levels as well foundation of knowledge, and then our walls are of faith, and then our roof is uh works okay he uses biblical because I kept that with me biblical analogy. He's yeah yeah, so, like the knowledge was. Where did he begin? I forgot what was the verse, but it was mentioning how, um, god wants everyone. He doesn't want, uh like offerings and sacrifices, he wants a person like a like learning more of you I think, it was hosia 66.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think it was that one. Y'all could check it harder yeah and then it was basically saying that, like god wants you to learn, more about him, learn about who god is right, and then how? In proverbs 1 7 it says in the beginning of knowledge is the fear of god correct? Having that connection? Well, not connection, but having that respect towards Him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in the Bible it states that wisdom begins with the fear of God, correct?
Speaker 2:So I see what you're saying. So it's like. So when we learn about God, we have to have that, you know, that basis of when we talk about God it comes with a respect factor to it, and then ourence, yes, and then our walls we use. The verse of faith comes from hearing, and hearing the Word of God mm-hmm so connecting to knowledge, where your faith will grow from hearing the Word of God.
Speaker 2:So that's why your knowledge is your base, because once you get your faith I mean once you get good knowledge your faith grows from the knowledge that you're learning from God, right, okay, it doesn't sound anything bad.
Speaker 1:Anything, yeah, it doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2:And then our roof is our works, our actions.
Speaker 1:And then they use James 2, verse 22, where it says faith without works, without, or faith without works is dead faith okay, so your works, your, your, your works, along with your faith, are made one, made whole okay, and there is there a reason as to why they're lining it up this way?
Speaker 2:what's the foundation?
Speaker 1:no, that's what I'm saying. Is there a reason as to why they have these three? Um, they decided to go. Are you going to?
Speaker 2:get like. These are like beginning classes. Okay, so these are all beginning. And the reason like these are the classes that stayed with me was like the main one was like the sower with, like the seed is the word of God. It lands on one place. You know all that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So then these, they taught me them and I didn't think these were like bad stuff because ultimately they're leading me to god, right. So yeah, but where they twist they used it to their favor was I talked to you, the foundation was knowledge and these people were the ones giving me this knowledge, so I would always they would use that for me to like grab on to them for to continue learning okay so like, obviously I never I couldn't tell, but these were the people that were teaching me, and if I I wanted to learn more, I have to come to these classes.
Speaker 1:To keep you around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cause I just I had no one was teaching me what they were teaching me. Right. And then I've never been like around like stuff like well, I actually have. So that's why I thought it was good. But basically I moved on to older classes.
Speaker 1:Okay. Big group group settings how long into the so into the situation was this? How long was it like? Was it months couple?
Speaker 2:weeks. So I met with my guy that like brought me in. He was like I met for him with like three, four weeks and then he was like it's time for big boy food, because you know how it's like, you know how it says, you can't always like have baby's milk right like that. Now you have to like get grown, grown man food, and this is what like group setting with other people that are also trying to learn with you okay and this is with an actual professor that like it's also like like just another young person.
Speaker 2:He's like around 28, 30 okay so it's like and everyone's young, like some, some older people, like around 50, 40, but just like like not too much, right. So I came to these settings we would meet at like college campuses.
Speaker 2:They're like running off and not running office, but like booking office, not an office, a classroom okay, and we would like come up, we would go into those classrooms and everything would be, be like I'm telling you, these people are like the nicest people, like we would go, we'd like maybe bring some snacks, we'd laugh, we'd talk, we would have convivial I don't know how to the word is. English.
Speaker 2:And it's like it's love bombing. I learned that it's a tactic that they use, called love bombing, so when they target college people that are lost, don't really know what they're doing. That's why these people are in the college campuses and, while these people don't have an understanding, they love bomb them to the point where you feel something and I got tricked into thinking that was the love of god and damn because I always felt like it's love, it's love you feel like everything was they were doing was god so when did you start feeling like this wasn't right, like after those classes that you were taking, or how did you?
Speaker 2:I started um. They were very strict, so in what sense? So like we had classes right so I moved from one week to two week, I mean to two days a week classes and these were.
Speaker 2:They started from like six to eight and now that was remember, this was I just did one day, and now we went to two days a week and it was from six to eight and now it was two days a week, from six to nine, and now it would be two days from six to nine, and you meet with your personal mentor, which is a dude that, like, just makes checks up on you. It's like a friend. Ultimately it's a man, it's a. It's called an assistant because he's assisting you to, like, continue learning and again these are nice people.
Speaker 2:They're like hey, kevin, good morning, how are you, how did you, how was the? How was the the preaching the lesson yesterday? Like yeah, it was good. And he's like what did you pick up? And you know, I'm like I try to like. And then we basically try to like teach our assistant what we learn and the assistant's like basically, you know, helping us to like understand what we're learning right like that and I was like this is good, like it's someone that's keeping me accountable right keep learning and it just it was a lot because you know, it's like, I'm telling you it's like two, I still go to church outside of this too right remember.
Speaker 2:So I have two class.
Speaker 2:I went to school, I would work, I would do these two-hour classes a day, so it'd be mondays, wednesdays and then thursdays I would meet with my mentor, and so these were and you know, sometimes I'd like I'd have to miss, you know yeah but these people, like that's where I was feeling like, oh, like when you tell them that you're missed it, almost like it's like guilt, trip you into feeling like bad because it's like, like we're doing so good, we're like you're learning, you're like doing so better for yourself, ke. Like you're learning, You're like doing so better for yourself, Kevin. Like Kevin, God just wants you to like just say no to the world and like say yes to God. Like God, you know he always has his hand out and obviously we can't control what you do, but if you, you know you give your time to God, God will see that. If you like, change your schedule to like fit God in. Right.
Speaker 2:God will see that. So it's like they always want you. They can't, they don't want you to miss these classes.
Speaker 1:I wonder if they're doing it actually for you or just for themselves, because you know like.
Speaker 2:I would like to know that too, because I'm telling you, these people, people are like really nice people and I honestly do believe that these people are also deceived, but I don't know what's in the higher up from that dang, so, so and so listen, when you started telling me all this like pressure that they're putting on you, like there's a difference between, like you know, holding somebody accountable but then also understanding like life happens.
Speaker 1:you know, sometimes you can't go, especially when you tell me that it's two hours and that's twice a week. I question that Because technically they're not a church, right, it's not like you're, you know.
Speaker 2:It's a non-denominational Bible study. Right. Hmm, right, it's not like you're. You know it's a non-denominational bible study, right, hmm, but you know it's like I'm not, I was never around stuff like that, but I did. You know how our church that I go to is like kind of like strict with like yeah you know. So I was always thinking like, oh, this is the same thing. Like you know, they're just. This is their way of like, setting order to their stuff right?
Speaker 1:yeah, because each denomination has a certain way they do things yeah I guess you can put it that way. Some of them are just humanly rules like you're, you got to do this and you got to do you know yeah and even though they're like, because I I learned how to separate, you know, biblical doctrine to church rules and I'm not saying church rules are bad, but each church has their specific set of rules.
Speaker 2:That's how they used to, you know, to benefit their community of people.
Speaker 1:So how did you end up getting out? Like what made you like?
Speaker 2:that kept you feeling uncomfortable to the point where you were just like I wasn't uncomfortable for that, because I'm telling you like I really wanted this, Carlos, Like I really wanted to connect with God and I thought this was it and I always kept. Ultimately, what they would tell me is keep your heart open, Because once you close your heart, God can't enter. That's interesting, because I think I was always like okay, there's doubts, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 2:Because, ultimately, I know they can't force me into anything, so if there's something I disagree with, I will find a way to leave or whatever. At the end of the day, they can't physically control me.
Speaker 2:But I always stayed there for the end of the day. They can't physically control me, uh-huh, but I always stayed there for the benefit of the doubt, so maybe when something doesn't add up, then I'll leave, okay. So I kept going. You know, everything's like nice and whatever, and obviously the, the, the doctrine, starts like changing where it's like um, they start mentioning stuff that I haven't heard of before. So like one of the things that that did, like they were saying, like john the baptist didn't reach heaven what yeah, because, the reason being, they used the verse where jesus said um so, john, those were John the Baptist.
Speaker 2:He was basically saying that, like John the Baptist was the highest on earth, but in the kingdom of heaven he does not end something like that. I forgot where it says, but basically saying that like you know how, but the context was, jesus Christ was basically saying that the kingdom of heaven is so much superior to anything in this world.
Speaker 1:Which is true, exactly Right.
Speaker 2:The kingdom of heaven is so much superior to anything in this world, which is true exactly right, but basically what they were saying using was john the baptist was so great in the world and he did not reach the kingdom of heaven, because we would use the definition of kingdom of heaven as anywhere god is that?
Speaker 1:okay, I see that confuses me and I see what that I would throw you off, because you're talking about a man who baptized everyone you know, and Jesus, and and you're telling me he's not worthy enough to to go to heaven. Plus, and there is a whole book of. Are we talking about the same john?
Speaker 2:john the baptist, you're right, yeah but ultimately they also use the the prophecy of well hey, this is, you know how john the baptist was um, basically the candlelight before the light, and he was the candle like what was basically leading the people to the light which was Jesus. John 1, verse 1, where Jesus was the light. And ultimately, when a candlelight, you use the candlelight. Until there is light, Like when there's darkness, you use a candlelight.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I see what you're saying. So there's a candlelight. And now when the light saying so there's a candlelight, and now when the light comes up here, the candlelight has to turn off. And basically what they're saying was john the baptist didn't turn off his candle because the reason being was when jesus came and he got baptized by john the baptist, john the baptist didn't follow him, he went his separate ways and he was baptizing people in another place. And they would use verses where some people were like almost uh, they would almost like disagree with Jesus because John the Baptist was doing some other stuff. They'll be like is it you or is it him? Or stuff like that. And also they also used another verse where john the baptist you know, when john the baptist was in prison, he he asked jesus, are you really the one that we're, that we're waiting for? And you know, that makes me think, like how did john the baptist go from being able to see the Messiah without no one telling him? Because, remember, he grew up with Jesus?
Speaker 2:They were cousins and he didn't know Jesus was the Messiah until that moment where he was in the river and he saw Jesus Christ and he was like that's the Messiah and that was the Holy Spirit telling him Because he was living with him and he never knew. And then you're telling me he saw him and he was so certain that that was the Holy Spirit telling him because he was living with him and he never knew. And then you're telling me he saw him and he was so certain that that was the Messiah and that he was like it's you who should be baptizing me, not me you right and now he's.
Speaker 2:That's what he said in the river right and now he's in prison and he's like telling his people to go tell Jesus. Are you really the messiah that we're waiting for?
Speaker 1:yeah, but even if he said that's, I mean I don't remember. I remember that part of the bible. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not pretending like I do, but I mean questioning as humans is part of our nature. It's not saying it's right, but it's, you know, it's part of all the sins that's in the world. It's not just a one person thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, plus, I mean there's a book in the bible. I mean just. I mean so we're talking about the topic of heaven, right, but how do they? Just because all of those, so they pick, they nitpick certain things and then they're saying that he didn't make um make it to heaven.
Speaker 2:That's what they're saying basically, ultimately, was because he was pulling people away from jesus. So that was the reason he couldn't make. He didn't make it.
Speaker 1:I gotta read that back in the bible if you guys are listening.
Speaker 2:I want to know what you guys just thoughts on this are, because this I gotta read this back because ultimately I I looked it up and I was like never heard of that and I feel like if you could, if you would look it up you would, he would see something about that.
Speaker 1:And then I was like and I thought the reason he went to jail was because of the purpose.
Speaker 2:Um, that was his quote unquote destiny, like yeah but they would also use the, the way that he's like. Jesus was somewhere else baptizing people and John was like doing his own, will you know? Telling the king that he shouldn't, that he shouldn't, marry his, his brother's wife or I forgot what that was called but basically telling him stuff that he wasn't supposed to do, which was like if, basically what they were saying was like if Jesus was already in the world and he's the light, why aren't you following him instead of doing your own stuff?
Speaker 1:yeah, but I don't that's. I gotta look more into that, because now you I'm not saying I'm questioning that, but I'm like I don't think that's the way it played out, like that's the. I don't think he tried to um, not follow God, or at least what he had for, you know, for his purpose in life you know?
Speaker 2:You know, I'd make those questions too, but they would say it's not about. It's not about like. It's also about obedience, like these people are like. Because, you know, john the Baptist was chosen before he was born. John the baptist was chosen before he was born. You know, john the baptist was basically said when he was in his mother's womb that this would be the you know, the one that would show the light.
Speaker 1:So it's like these people have different types of responsibilities compared to us I feel like it's like a modern case of like what a lot of people and a lot of churches do, which is like pick certain part of the stories and they run with it you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was like, but you know, dude, I was like young and I had no biblical foundation right where to stand, and then, uh, yeah, basically little stuff like that. And then they started mentioning this dude, where it was like he was basically seen as the new john.
Speaker 2:So you know how in revelations chapter and revelations it comes from the point of view of john the apostle okay so john the apostle is basically seeing of the revelation given from god and basically he's saying the one who overcome will do these things and do this thing. Specifically called, so he'd have different names called the one who overcomes, news new john, uh, faithful servant. So these were basically. This person was able to have the interpretation of everything in the Bible. So, because this was in Revelations, it spoke about the scroll and this man ate the scroll and he was told to preach. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:So this was basically someone who was able to translate the whole Bible, all the parables, all all the prophecies, all this, everything. And this is where I already knew I was like there was something off, because I would have heard something like that we would have heard yeah, that's what I'm trying to remember, something like this. But it basically, and you know what I would do, I would. I would, I'd read my english bible, which they use, the niv okay, which is? The reason I I don't read the niv anymore.
Speaker 1:Uh, and then I would look at my, my spanish one, reina valera and I'll be like the king james almost in english, but it's not king james, it's 1300 reina valera 1960 okay, so it's not okay never mind then oh yeah, but basically it would like it'd be off a little bit.
Speaker 2:So it's like you know what it's and I wasn't even like giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point. I was, I was still in there because I was like what are these people talking about? Right because I I'm curious, because I'm like these people are like so dead on that. This is the this is the truth.
Speaker 2:And you know, and I don't know who this person is, who this the one who overcomes. And I asked him. I was like is this person here, the one who overcomes? Like is he here on earth? And they just look at me and it's like you can. He's like you can do your own, like like I say you can think for yourself, based off everything that we're teaching you, why he's like, if we're able to teach you that and there's only one person that's able to have that word, then that person's here. Then I asked, asked, who is this?
Speaker 1:dude Yo, I just I ain't gonna lie, I just got chills, that's how I felt, yo, we were at a cafe spot. I just got chills.
Speaker 2:I was like so is this guy here on earth? He's like, he's like, if I'm able to tell you this and only one person has eaten the scroll, then what's, what's? What's it? You know? It's like who is this? Who's his brother, right? And then it's like gotta, gotta, continue like. This is not. This is baby. Little steps, little steps, little steps. And I'm telling you, these people are so foundationally strong, but not strong if it's not strong if you're biblically like, not if you're knowledgeable about okay your bible studies and all that.
Speaker 2:But I wasn't. You know, I didn't know right, what I was studying.
Speaker 2:but I was just curious, that's ultimately what they capitalized on. And then I was everything connected, what they were saying connected, connected, connected, connected. And that's why I wish I would have probably like learned more about the bible before. Everything connected, what they were saying Connected, connected, connected, connected. And that's why I wish I would have probably like learned more about the Bible before, but because then it wouldn't connect, but for me it did, and they would like, slowly, everything would add up to their doctrine.
Speaker 1:To what they believe right.
Speaker 2:Exactly Everything would add up from like the very beginning to the middle, to how the middle and the beginning reached the end and how the middle hit the start, like everything was together yeah so I was like wow, yeah. And basically, you know, I was curious because I was like yeah, who it like, who is? This guy is this dude and I kept going to classes, and you know these. Oh, another reason was like I went to El Salvador. I think it was a year or two years ago and yeah, it was last summer.
Speaker 2:I had to make up those classes they had you make that while I went to El Salvador and I would make them up in el salvador because I couldn't make the meetings, but I would have to make them up in my own time and I felt really bad for these assistant people because they wouldn't even give you the, the, the video. So, like you know how there's a zoom, they record the zoom lesson and all of that, but it was sus I'm not thinking about it because I don't really care, I'm just doing the lesson, but that's us, because it was.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I would be like if y'all can send me the lesson, I'll just you know, and they're like no no, we got to make sure that you're listening I was like okay. So then these poor little assistants are like sitting with me in a Zoom while I'm watching the video. So these assistants are like not doing anything but just sitting there, and that's why I tell you, I don't think these people like know what they're doing, because these people's lives are getting taken.
Speaker 1:That's really weird though.
Speaker 2:These people are spending hours and hours and hours, putting their time and love into this. What they think they're gaining is bringing people to God. These people also have to work.
Speaker 1:They have to do stuff they have other lives.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking if I was in there for so long. These people are in there for longer and they have more responsibilities to do and one of my assistants ended up being a pastor's daughter. Yo, so she? She said I had to basically tell my my dad that he was, he was in the wrong and no, it got that deep.
Speaker 1:Well, so continue, because I want to get to, so so yeah damn.
Speaker 2:so the reason that conversation came into place was because they're at the point where it was like you can't eat the good stuff and the bad stuff, Because when you mix a good and bad, it's ultimately bad. Right. The reason they say that is, I'm going to a church and I'm taking these studies, and only one of them is the word of God.
Speaker 2:Remember, because one dude has the perfect revelation Only one of them is the word of God, remember, because one dude has the perfect revelation. So they're already starting to tell me like it's not good for you to listen to other people's stuff. And I was like I don't like that because I'm like everything's God, like everything's the Bible, everything's that. But he's like, no, but this is a perfect revelation ultimately. So I want the perfect food that is not contaminated by the stuff of the king and Daniel.
Speaker 2:you know how in Daniel, they said mm-hmm yeah, so you can't contaminate yourself with messed up stuff. So they were telling me that you have to like stop, and I was like, and I was like I'm not, I can't, like, I just don't feel like I should. And she was. That's where she was like look, my dad was a pastor. So imagine how I felt having to tell my dad that he was in the wrong and that he's leading people away from god.
Speaker 2:Now I want to question this chick myself and just ask her, like yo kind of listen to what that conversation went down and dude, and I would like break down a couple times there, because it's like imagine, it's like someone constantly like poking at your, at your faith, right, they're using the, your love of god, which ultimately no one can like can remove from me, exactly. Yeah, so like if, if I'm saying like, be here, because this is god's word, so be with god, don't do other stuff, and you'd be like man. You're right, I have to be with God, don't do other stuff, and you'd be like man. You're right, I have to be with God learning. Right.
Speaker 2:So I'd always listen.
Speaker 1:And then. So how did that continue into? What was your like breaking point? What led you to just be like I'm done, I'm out?
Speaker 2:My brother at least sent me a TikTok, simple stuff like that. He sent me a TikTok about a girl, stuff like that. He sent me a tiktok about a girl basically saying about some quote at gsu, and then I look he sends it to me and he's like he's got chills again. Kevin go ahead and then at least send me the tiktok, because, again, I'm not supposed to be telling anyone what I learned while I'm in these lessons, because I'm not.
Speaker 2:And then that was already a sketchy thing right, yeah, yeah not telling people and this is god's word like you want to, like when you're learning stuff. All you want to do is tell people more about god yours and that's what you're supposed to do exactly. So it's like spread the good news. So I guess that was something I was always against and I didn't listen to, because I would tell ali, I would tell jackie, I would tell everyone and everyone liked what I was saying. I tell people from all my, from my church, of people, everyone loved what I was saying they're like wow, kevin, you're learning so much.
Speaker 2:This is beautiful. Like stephanie, too, I would tell stephanie and she was like, wow, he's like I need to start getting into these classes and it's like like, obviously like everything, you will never think that these are bad stuff because all the lessons are ultimately making you a better, making you connect to god, right.
Speaker 2:And then, and you know, we worship and we do all these stuff and all these lessons, and yeah, so I, I would tell people what I was I was learning and le was like hey, man, he was like this, ain't that stuff that you, you're doing? And then it was because he was like it's talking about those parables, because that's how I began I began studying all the parables of jesus.
Speaker 2:And then he was like this, isn't it the parable stuff? And I was like I looked at the video, it wasn't the same, it wasn't the same name, same stuff, none of that. But I looked that stuff, I look up that name. I looked up on google and then I looked up all their doctrine and how they teach and all that. Brother, that's where I was you got in the mix.
Speaker 2:I was like, wow, that's where I was like everything connected to the outside of their. It was a. It was a korean cult called shin chonji or new heaven, new earth, but my bible study was called journal to heaven okay so nothing, so nothing. So you know, the TikTok was talking about New Heaven. New. Earth, shinshanji, scj, all these stuff, and I was like that's not it, and also the way she would describe the parables wasn't exactly what we were living. So I was like no, this is not it.
Speaker 2:And then, but I did look up that stuff and all their doctrine, and then the you know the stuff and all their doctrine, and then the you know the, the one who overcomes the man that's on earth. I found him and, and for everybody who hasn't caught on, who was it? Lee man? He, it was a. It was a korean dude called lee man. He and he was the, the leader of this cult in korea. And once I I was like this brother is the one. I was like nah, and then I looked, I look him up, and he was part of past colts called the olive, the olive tree or the olive branch, something like that. And I was like once you're connected to colts and I know that there's a lot korean colts that are going around and you know, I was like wow, like just if you look up this and you hear, if you see colt around it, you need to get them yeah so I was like nah, and then I was.
Speaker 2:When I looked this all up, I was I texted my assistant and I was like hey, you know what you know. Uh, have you heard? You know what Xinchang Ji is? She texts me where did you hear that? But I didn't open it. I read it from the screen. She deletes the message and she says no, what did you hear about? Stuff like, how did you hear it? Or where did you?
Speaker 1:hear that from she deleted your message.
Speaker 2:No, she deleted her message which said where did you see that from? She deleted your message. No, she deleted her message which said where did you see that? She deleted that message.
Speaker 1:Regrouped herself, realized that that was kind of Kind of affirming that there is something that exists.
Speaker 2:She's like no, kevin, what did you hear about that? And once I saw that stuff, I wrote a whole thing to her. I was like dude. I was mad. I was like y'all are a bunch of liars, foundation based off lies. Y'all are snakes, y'all are oh, you went off.
Speaker 2:I was like y'all, y'all are the definition of wolves in sheep clothing. Y'all think y'all are good people, y'all think that y'all are helping y'all, but all y'all know that y'all are lying to everyone. And these are all bunch of lies. Like I was like. And then I told her I was like, I was, and you know, I was just mad. But I told her I was like I'm very disappointed in you, like you, I thought.
Speaker 2:I thought we were like like I'm trusting all y'all and all y'all are just full of lies, full of lies. And then I blocked her. I didn't let her, I didn't let them give me any single type of response, because I didn't think they deserved it, to be honest, because I was telling I was. I was mad because I was like I was eight months into this carlos, eight months of hours of nights of studying all this, and then when I found all of it, it's like a lie, it it did hit me. So then I yeah, I like blocked her. But then, you know, I was like, and then I go to manuel, he says because manuel is uh part of ministry.
Speaker 1:He's so good of ministry.
Speaker 2:Manuel is good and Manuel knows what he's talking about. And then I basically would go to his house, tell him everything I learned. What did he? Tell you basically that they structured it to the point where I would look for them, because they would. Every single lesson had a little bit of like it's your fault, like it's uh, like it's like it had something where it made you feel bad.
Speaker 1:Basically is what I'm saying so they would use kind of guilt and he's like yeah and he's like oh, he's like, I guess it's right, but the way they're teaching you is like yeah it's like putting you down, yeah because when you first started I was like wait, this is kind of sounding like the right stuff that I've been, I've been taught, you know, and we've been taught, and that's what he was saying because he was like some of it is right yeah, they start everything he's like it's good, but it's like.
Speaker 2:But he was like. Some of it is right. Yeah, they start everything's. He's like it's good, but it's like. But he's like the way they're saying it is not the best because they're putting me down ultimately.
Speaker 2:And he's like putting me down. And then he's like and then it's little by little he'll be like oh, that's kind of wrong. And then we keep going and I Like that's not how you read that text, but I guess you could use it like that. He's like that's actually a different context, but, okay, I can see how that can help your life. He's like oh, you can't read that like that, oh, and that's not what that means. So, slowly and slowly, as I would tell him everything I learned, he'd be like oh, no. And he's like oh, this and no, no, like oh, no. He's like oh, this and no, no. And then he's like this you cannot read it like that the context is not, it's totally different.
Speaker 2:Uh, this is a prophecy book, this is a literal translation. This is all the specific types like how you can't, can or can't read right, and he was like and that's when I was like, all right, can't read and he was like and that's when I was like, alright, I'll get it, everything's out the window, I'm not, you know.
Speaker 2:And then I was basically, and that's where I learned who Jesus was. I learned who Jesus was because I was doing all of this based off works, because I was like I have to do better, I have to work, I have to continue learning, I have to do better, I have to be the best I can, I have to continue giving my time. I have to do all of this, which I thought was okay, because you know, you're doing it for God, but I didn't know who jesus christ was.
Speaker 2:I knew like obviously I knew you had an idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, but I didn't know that he was the perfect lamb that died and died died for our sins and raised on the third day and because of him we are saved not because of anything that I do yeah, not because of how I work, how I do this, that this man is the reason I'm saved and this is the man that that ultimately like. And then that's where they disconnected, because I actually never noticed, but they never mentioned jesus as god. And that's because I because, again, like I knew jesus was god but I never really like thought of it as, like you know, the third person or the second person in the in the trinity, the holy spirit was god's spirit.
Speaker 2:I didn't notice that change that they did. So it would be god j and God's spirit, and you see the little change in the Holy Spirit to God's spirit Dang bro Against the Trinity, not being Christian. So you see, and once I got out of this cult, I did all my research on everything else. I studied everything on Christians, every type of denomination I could hear search up the history of the church how stuff switched.
Speaker 2:You know the great schism, the Protestantism evangelist, all that like, how stuff like that forms yeah and the doctrines, ultimately, that you have to follow as a Christian, and how they, how, how they. What's the foundation that we have? So, then, that's where I, jesus, came. I was like this is the one that we, that we, we have eternal life for. Right.
Speaker 2:Like, and then that that took a whole thing out of my shoulders, because imagine I would like spend all these hours and thinking I would never be good enough because of how, the way they would like talk down on you, and then this took a whole weight out of my shoulders and it made just just made me feel I felt that love of love of god. That's where I felt it, where I was like, wow, like, even though I'm like not the greatest, I won't like I could keep trying, but I'll never be enough. And then I was looking at these people, at this cult. They think that they'll one day be enough. These people think that maybe, as the higher they connect themselves to this cult thing, that they will be connected more and more to God, because that's what they're craving More connection to God, and they will never find it.
Speaker 2:That's such a humanly way to look at things too, if you read the Bible correctly, because you just want to connect with God, because all you want to, exactly because you just want to connect with god. But you'll and you want to be enough for god. But we have all cough all, we have all fallen short from the glory of god, and that's why we got jesus yo, I'm not gonna lie, bro.
Speaker 1:This at the beginning, I'm not I was like this is sounding like, like, but I see why people start to. I see why you thought this was the correct way. It sounds like the math is mathing in that end. You know what I mean. But when you start asking questions and they don't want to answer or they tell you that you know that person is here now. But when you read the bible it tells you it's another different story, which is dude man. I'm sorry you had to go through that, bro, that's, but it led you to jesus. So may a and that's so me.
Speaker 2:And that's where I realized, like, even though you pray for the stuff that you want, it might not be exactly what you want, because imagine, like I did pray for these Bible studies for a simple way to like continue, a simple way for someone to like show me and sit there with me Because that's what I wanted. And ultimately, it wasn't what I wanted, it was what God.
Speaker 1:That's what I wanted and ultimately, it wasn't what I wanted, it was what God you know. When you told me that and the analogy of this is especially when you're praying, like, hey, you wanted these Bible studies. But remember, every time you pray, there's always two people listening. Right, you're talking to the Lord, but there is the enemy also always listening, you know, to even the prayer requests, not saying that, um, I'm not saying, I don't want these people to misconstrued this, but there is somebody else always there, right, even if you're talking to to the lord, and maybe, who knows, if he took that into his advantage to lead you on and bring you on into something that you know I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's the case too, because I think god used that to bring, but you know what, though? It made me be aware that it's not what I wanted. It's what God's will is, because, even though I could have wanted these Bible studies, but I never I wouldn't I saw that it wasn't what benefited me.
Speaker 1:But you know what I see from that? It's the fact that God knew your heart and he knew that you were actually pursuing him, Except you weren't in the right situation to. But when he knows your heart, he will eventually meet you where you're at.
Speaker 2:You know he pulled you away from that, and the thing that I was grateful for is that I don't think I was. I don't think I was looking for him, to be honest.
Speaker 1:For God. Yeah, in that situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Not in that situation, but like before they came. Oh, okay, gotcha, I think I was like. I think I was getting more and more distant, to be honest, Well, I'm saying during that process that you were going through you wanted to build more relationship with the ones you were in right, Mm-hmm. And that's what I'm saying, yeah, 99, he left the 99 to get the one, the one, and you were the one exactly, and that's where you feel the love again following the biblical man dude.
Speaker 1:That is awesome, bro. I got so many chills during this conversation that I was just like um. So when it comes to this guy that is supposed to you know, know everything at this point, um, can we assume that that's like I wouldn't say that's the devil, but is maybe one of his? You know, come, you know. If that's the case, right?
Speaker 2:Well, it's also um. I looked at a lot of cult stuff like how-.
Speaker 1:They always have one leader.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I'm saying, and it's like these cult stuff sometimes, and I'm telling you these cult stuff also, some of them are not evil, because these people are just deceived by the enemy and these Good point, and that's where I'd be thinking like, and that's where I'd be thinking like these are not bad people, maybe, like I do think that this Korean dude was evil, because I think, how are you part of two different ones and now you become almost like a God figure in another one?
Speaker 2:So I think like they have some beneficial stuff. Also, there's some where, like, they get revealed as like a new gospel, and you know, paul tells us that whoever preaches you a new gospel other than mine, they are sent from the devil, right, so it's obvious, it's just. It's just people being deceived and that's why, ultimately, we, we gotta stay close to our, our word and not let ourselves be deceived by wolves in sheep clothing, because it is up to us, yeah, to not get deceived you know, ever since that you went through that, I know you've had changes in your life and um recently you've taken that so serious that you ended up getting baptized.
Speaker 1:So you know. I want to congratulate you again for taking that step um, but what did you feel made? Congratulate you again for taking that step, um, but what did you feel made like? Made you ready to to for?
Speaker 2:that step. Um, honestly, I I knew I was gonna get baptized, probably like a couple months before, because I was. That's when I felt jesus. I was like I'm because you know, jesus, uh, baptism is like a confession of faith and I'm this is the person Like, if I want to be, I want to be known as a person that follows Jesus, and I was like baptism is a simple thing from my head. There I was like I've done all these studies, all these lessons, all these studies, all these lessons, all these nights, and I felt the love of jesus when that weight fell out and I was like this is, this, is the man, this I was like baptized is it's it, this is what I'm, but this is the new beginning a lot of the times when people ask you know, how do do you know Jesus is real?
Speaker 1:And a lot of times what you can say is just because you felt him, because I felt him, I don't know what to tell you, and that's dangerous, though. No, but I'm saying in the sense of like sometimes you can't even explain you know that feeling.
Speaker 2:I ask people what it feels when, like, they feel the Holy Spirit, which is different, but it feels like a hug and that hug breaks you down when you feel so much stress and you feel like a hug where you just cry.
Speaker 1:I feel peace is what I would say. That's what it is. I feel peace is what I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're like peace and like like. You're just like shaking, you're like scared, but then you get that hug and you're just like you're just, it's just, it's just super it's hard to explain, it's really hard.
Speaker 1:It because it's a spiritual warfare man, and those are some of the things that I feel like it's hard sometimes to to even explain, um, even to feel, bro, there's a certain feeling that you feel when you know like it's the spirit, it's the lord, um, but you have to experience yourself. I feel like to to under just kind of understand what that feels like.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and then you also feel it, because when you're getting away from God, you feel something as well. Conviction, and you're like, you're like I'm not in the right, and that's where it pulls you back, and you just again, that's that's God also telling you like, hey, this is, it's not lock in Exactly, it's not lock in exactly. Yeah, and that's when you just know, because then once you lose that conviction, that that fear of god also fear of god is.
Speaker 2:Fear of god is so important as well. And that's like it's just. I lost my train of thought. I'm not gonna, no, no but it.
Speaker 1:But again, because it's not see, it seems it's. It's not just so simple, bro. Like if and you've experienced both sides of things right and on one end you feel a certain way, you know, you feel that pressure of like trying to do works, to get up to heaven, and the other one, he just shows you love and he's like you're good enough, I died for you, you know, I love you. The reason I died is because I love you. He shows you the love.
Speaker 1:The feeling is totally different, bro it is yeah, you just know, and you're a human being and you have feelings, you have emotions. You know what love feels like, because your mom loves you, your dad loves you.
Speaker 2:You know, you know what, but when god loves you, and then, when I started reading the, the bible, in that type of context, I saw how everyone ended up failing god.
Speaker 1:How how noah?
Speaker 2:wasn't enough. How abraham didn't? Abraham didn't have that faith at the beginning with god. How it was?
Speaker 1:he always was like okay, he's like you said, I'm gonna have a kid, so, but not with my wife because she's too old, so I'm gonna have it with the servant, or oh, you told me to go to egypt, but I'm gonna get beat up because my wife is pretty so she's gonna be my sister, yeah so it's like imagine abraham was the father of a faith and he began not knowing nothing, but he, and this is in the old testament, that was an old testament and he, he messed up so many times and he the relationship we had with god was, I feel like you know, closer than a lot of people would, you know, get to exactly and him even then, knowing that he still messed up, but god still decided to because he went from him not knowing, like not trusting him to.
Speaker 2:He said go to the top of the mountain and sacrifice your son. He said okay and he almost did and he, in his heart, he was already and he was and in his heart it wasn't because he thought god was going to tell him no, no, he thought he had so much faith in god, he thought he was going to kill his son and he was going to revive him or he was going to bring him back bring him back to life.
Speaker 2:Not even knowing that God has brought anyone back to life before Because he hadn't.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good, he didn't know that's really good.
Speaker 2:He never knew God brought people back to life, but he already. He had that faith in him.
Speaker 1:Man.
Speaker 2:And then I'll see like Moses failed him. Moses, who wrote the first five books in the bible, was one of the main authors he was. He ended up not being able to see the promised land of canaan because of his um, because you know, he struck the the stone. Yeah, it's like he would fail him. Or like aaron, he built the the golden calf at the end, david, he, david, he slept with a woman that wasn't his.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Killed his soldier for her. And then Solomon. Solomon was one of my favorite stories Supposed to be the wisest man no. Solomon was one of my favorite stories. Ecclesiastes is such a good book.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you that what is your favorite part of the Bible? What's your favorite either book we're going to call it quote-unquote story, but verses or parable. What is it that you feel like you?
Speaker 2:To connect me to Jesus. It was obviously the gospels. Uh, I did like john, the gospel of john, because you know, at the beginning, that's where I saw the connection, where it told us jesus is god, or, in the beginning was the word, the world was god and the word was god and he was made flesh so and he was made flesh so boom, jesus is God.
Speaker 2:He was there at the beginning, but the one that I try to live my life more is Ecclesiastes with Solomon, because the context of being the wisest man in the world, having all the riches he ever wanted all the riches he could ever wanted because of you know when, when god loves someone so much, he like he, uh, how do I say?
Speaker 1:he gives his children. I don't know if you know that.
Speaker 2:Because, like abraham, because god, knows, I have a thing go ahead, keep going. Like god loved abraham so much that all of his descendants he got uh blessed because of it.
Speaker 2:So yes he loved david so much that he blessed solomon and solomon. He and solomon was a good person. He was like he said you can have anything. What do you want? I want wisdom. No one would choose that. But now he had wisdom and he had a kingdom like no other in the bible. He had anything he could think of. He had land, cattle, concubines, wives all that. He experienced the world. And this man is telling you everything's meaningless. Todo se es vanidad. Towards the end.
Speaker 2:And he's like I have lived everything possible that you could think of and nothing was enough. Everything is meaningless. And I like the context of having a king who, in all his glory and all his reign, all his again, this is not just, uh, like you know, just a knucklehead Wise man. He reached everything that you probably want. You know how someone's like I want this, I want that. I want that.
Speaker 2:And this man's telling you because he had it all, the physical things in life. Is never enough, only your connection with God. And poor dude. And the irony is that he disconnected from god so remind me, what did he do again afterwards?
Speaker 2:uh, he started, uh, doing the false idols because of all the women he was with. All the women were like you know, they weren't fearful, fearful of God and they also had their idols and they would be like build me a shrine or something like that, and he would build them and he would pray with them oh, that's crazy and that's the king of Israel, and that's ultimately how the kingdom of Israel separated from God and they went under under captivity into other nations, and that's the man the wisest man who had everything. Hey that is really good.
Speaker 1:I don't even remember how that ended that book in the Bible ended but that's interesting to hear. Now I'm going to have to go and just read that, run it back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it doesn't tell you in Ecclesiastes, because obviously he wrote that, he wrote that. He wrote that. He wrote Proverbs.
Speaker 1:He wrote Proverbs, yep and Psalms. Proverbs is so good too. I love Proverbs.
Speaker 2:Proverbs is very yeah. Yeah. You can see the knowledge in there. But, ecclesiastes, I just like the context of all the beauty and nothing's enough.
Speaker 1:Nothing, nothing. That's good, dude. I feel like that's like that's good to hear. Man, a lot of people need to hear that. You know, when I was trying to find the verse that you were referring to like that art resembles that I cracked my neck when I came back and it's like it hurts, bro, but I'm still trying to find it, dude, it was literally oh, it's over there, I can't even see it, but it's right there, I know what it is. It's, um, it's the one that says that god promises. Um, I forgot now. I forgot which. See it, but it's right there, I know what it is. It's the one that says that God promises. I forgot now. I forgot which one it was, but I'll show you, probably afterwards. But it's good, my friend gave me that and I always had that there. I should have learned the verse, to be honest. Yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:But you'll see how God blesses those, who blesses the descendancy of the ones that he loved.
Speaker 2:So like, where do we see it? Like jacob. Jacob had all his kids, but he couldn't have one with his preferred wife because, you know, he had rachel and leah. He loved rachel, but leah was the one that was given to him at first and leah was the only one that was giving him kids, but he blessed the descendancy of the kid, that of his preferred wife. So then, that's where joseph came, so like, even though that wasn't his first son, that was his. That's where you can see god like it's. It's the connection between a man and a woman, right, one woman and one man. So if he wasn't, he didn't have it with leia, he had it with rachel and he blessed his he honored.
Speaker 1:That, I think. Have you ever thought about, uh, and I was, um, I was telling I was in a man, small Kevin how, when you talk about God's, when he died for our sins, right, I feel like sometimes we take that lightly because you know it's you kind of use that you know.
Speaker 2:As a safety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, but check this out. When you look at the purpose behind, right, there is a man who's half human and half God right, full human full. God, is that what?
Speaker 2:That's the difference. He's 100% human, 100% God. And that's where people, that's where it's like iffy because it's like how can you be 100% human, how can you be 100% God?
Speaker 1:Well, I guess when I say that is, is, and that's where you're coming from. I guess, when I say that is, I say it in a sense of like he's, he, he's half and half, but like to complete a whole, I guess, is what I'm saying. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:yeah not to separate the two, yeah, but to complete the.
Speaker 1:But I, I like, actually like that, I like that better.
Speaker 1:So, full human, full god right, and I don't know if, like I, when I heard this like part of the bible, and as to you know one of the reasons why he came down, why he sent his son right, the fact that one of the main reasons was so he could understand what we feel as humans is so cool.
Speaker 1:You know, the day before um jesus about to get, the night before jesus about to get crucified, you know he asked his father will you let this cup pass me, but your will be done so many things that we can get from that that at that moment, jesus, his human side, came out and said hey, man, I'm shook, I'm scared, I'm worried, I'm anxious, I'm fearful, and all my life I always wonder, like how, god, you're almighty, how can you relate to what I'm going through? One of the purpose that he sent, he understood because of Jesus. This is why the connection is you get to him through Jesus, right. And then, on top of that, think about when he got crucified. He took all of our sins right, people who are lived, people who are living and people who live.
Speaker 1:And we can't even deal with our own sins. We struggle with our own One person.
Speaker 2:And that's why Jesus asked to give it to him.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and this is the beautiful part One person, kevin. We can't even deal with our own sins. Now imagine Jesus taking billions of sins.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, he was alone when he got crucified. The Spirit of God wasn't with him, because God does not dwell among sin.
Speaker 1:Wait, yo, actually that is something that I haven't. If I've heard it, I forgot it. But get into that. Let me hear that you know how he would.
Speaker 2:He quoted songs, psalms, where he says my God, why have you forsaken me? Basically saying like why did you leave me? It was, he was. He was separated from there because God does not dwell among sin, and he felt that, that he felt all of that by himself so is that something that's in the bible, or like people interpret it that way? I've heard it a lot, because that's he does say why have you for?
Speaker 2:saying yeah, I remember that part and that's ultimately you think it was because and there's a verse where it says god does not dwell among sin so people put two and two and that's where you're coming from.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I would like to get into that too.
Speaker 2:I'd like to get more into that, because Because it's either that or he's just singing psalms. But people think. People basically say that psalms was basically a how do you say it? Like a prophecy, but like of what was to come. It was jesus's last words or not his last words, but it was him saying basically that why, why have you forsaken me? Where, where, where are you?
Speaker 1:because again, this is I gotta look, I gotta, I gotta ask, I will bring that to my small group and we can talk about that. Um, because those are interesting things to talk about. You know and like and get more info on that, because I, if I've heard of that, for some reason it clicked when you said that, but at the same time I'm like not sure yeah, you know, I'm not sure of that but. I appreciate you bringing that up.
Speaker 2:That's interesting yeah, because that's what that's good like for this dude and then obviously, like, sometimes I get scared of like what. Like what if a lot of people probably have the question like how do I know where if I did enough? Or like what, how do I know if I'm making it to heaven? First of all, you have to be so certain that your faith is. You have to get your faith so strong that jesus is gonna like that what jesus says is true.
Speaker 1:You gotta believe that you believe in him and then because of him you will be saved yeah, I, and the most important part, it's the relationship that you have with him. It's not your. The works, obviously.
Speaker 1:The works come through um eventually, uh, when you're faithful and you're walking with him. But one of the most important parts, if not the most important, is the relationship you have with him, because you know you want to hear those words at the end Well done, my good and faithful servant. Right, and you got to remind yourself of the relationship that you have with him. And once you, he says, once you accept him into your life as your Lord and Savior, nothing can separate you from him. Your love cannot be separated from him.
Speaker 2:Obviously, if you have a relationship and you keep building a relationship with him, so also well, basically what I was saying is god, you will be judged ultimately at the end.
Speaker 2:Right for all of your, your, your things, and then your sins yeah, and then someone was basically saying I heard this from someone where it was like, sometimes you like get nervous because it's like what if, like like, they just get nervous, obviously that you're gonna get judged. But the person that's gonna judge you is the person that, on his like, at the point of his death, after getting bit, bit, like beaten, spat on, ridiculed, like defaced, all that, he did all that and he still said forgive them, father, for they know not what they do, and that person is going to be the one to judge you. That's love and imagine.
Speaker 2:And there's no one on earth that you would rather have judged than someone that yeah came here, was perfect, did nothing wrong, got bit, got beaten spat on crucified, crucified and basically embarrassed in front of everyone yeah, and still loved asked his father to forgive him.
Speaker 1:That's now, that's love and that's great perspective to have too.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming you remind yourself of that a lot I do because it's like because yeah yeah, that's the person that's going to judge you at the end, and that's, and that, ultimately and this is where people, like you know obviously be like only god could, like you know, obviously be like only God could judge me. And that's like, and you know, that's like such a scary thing but, it's like it's.
Speaker 2:It's in a different context, where it's like you're not doing this because because you're scared of God. But you do this because you love what this, what Jesus, did for you. You love that you have that freedom now that, like you, can live in uncertainty. But you don't do use that to do whatever you want. Instead, you use that to love them and get more connected.
Speaker 1:Right, and, like you mentioned earlier, kevin, the fear of God is not you having actual fear towards him, but it's the reverence of his presence, it's the awe. There's a book on that that I read last year that referred to all of that like the awe of God, the fear of God, but it's the reverence you need to have. You know when, even when you pray. You know, sometimes, when we pray, we just you know, we just say the prayer, but, like, whenever you're in that moment, you need to have the reminder of that reverence that you have towards the Lord, because he's the highest of highest.
Speaker 1:Obviously, if you believe in him, right, and I don't, you know, we don't want people to think that it's an actual fear, like, oh my God, like if I do something. No, it's because, at the end of the get, god is love and you have to remind yourself of that. And you know, the moment you realize that you are human, you will commit mistakes and you, you know it will happen. It's not an if and but, but it's the relationship that you build, it's the, the lessons to learn, um, and one day, hopefully, you know you live for his purpose.
Speaker 2:Correct. At the end, it's his will be done, not ours.
Speaker 1:Let this cup pass me, but your will be done. That was deep Now when I understood that I was like yo, that's.
Speaker 2:Let your will be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the.
Speaker 1:Lord's prayer, kevin. This was good man. This was good man, this was good I. I appreciate you coming and sharing and being vulnerable. Um, and I ain't gonna I ain't gonna lie to you, this got deeper than I thought it would. But I love that, bro, because I feel like this is how natural conversations happen. You know, and I appreciate you opening up your faith to not just myself, but to a lot of people listening, and you know they will listen to your story, you know, through TikTok, youtube, some through Instagram. But I appreciate that, man, and I want to say I am very proud of you for how far you came, because you seem like you're on top of your game, bro, and hopefully that remains for the rest of your life, homie. So you know, appreciate you, man. This is, this is, this is beautiful.
Speaker 1:So thank you for coming on my podcast, bro thank you hey man, ladies and gentlemen, I hope you guys enjoy these conversations. Um, you know, the vulnerability that we have in this podcast is is, it's amazing, a lot of people just sharing the real life stories and you know their journey. Um, this was good, I ain't gonna lie, I got you know, I wish I would keep. We might have a part two eventually. Kevin, you need, we need, we need to run it back again and you need to come back. But, thank you guys, for everyone who has been listening.
Speaker 1:Don't forget that you can subscribe to my youtube channel and if you're listening through a youtube channel, of course you can watch it in 4k. And if you want to, you know, show them love also to all the audio platforms. We got spotify, amazon music and apple podcast. We're also on there. If you can leave a review or you can just, you know, um, shout out. You know, spread the love to your friends and family. We keep going on my channel. So I appreciate you guys, thank you. We're close to 1 million views on my channel and we'll probably hit the next year, but that would be a really cool milestone, so we're gonna keep grinding on. I hope you guys enjoy this podcast. Kevin, again, brother, my brother in christ man. Hey, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1:Man appreciate you all right, man, you guys have a blessed one. See you guys in the next one. Peace and love. Baby in love baby.